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My Nerfed Minnie BSs - Let Me Show You Them or Seriously, wtf CCP

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Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:55:00 - [1] Originally by: whisk so, you kIlled some noob in huggin and suddenly sniper tempest is good?;) This is pretty much my reaction. It's a recon ship - one hardly known for EITHER firepower or durability. In fact, there is almost no scenario imaginable where the pest could lose to the Huggin - other than termal stupidity on the Pest pilots part (ZOMG! I forgot to load ammo before leaving station and all my mods are offlined!)
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:21:00 - [2] Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Idara You'll notice the only person saying much about the Tempest being 'good' is NightmareX. I'll let you figure out the rest on your own. If you still mean the Tempest is crap, then why do i get those results here: Link. The Tempest must be good on sisi where the changes are now when i can get results like that. The fundamental flaw in the argument is that Sisi is not TQ. It's like a physics argument that starts with "a sphere in a vacuum". Sisi fights are not representative of much of the PVP in Eve. It often takes place with implants you simply do not have (crystals, slaves, snakes as examples), or using mods you wouldn't risk on TQ (officer/deadspace and even faction). Frequently they revolve around a 1v1, and the results are hardly indictive "real world" performance. I will agree that there are scenarios where a pest is a good (qualification: better than many alternatives) ship. But those scenarios represent a rather small slice of the PVP pie. Why use a Pest when a Torp Raven will outshine the ship in most scenarios? Why use a Maelstrom to snipe when it's outdone (or at least matched) by the much cheaper apoc?
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.14 01:29:00 - [3] Originally by: NightmareX Yes i have a clue on how to fly my ships, but if a newer player also have a clue on how to fly the ships he want to use, he can get LOTS of kill with that. No matter what ship your in, if you have a clue and are smart enough, you can do some really nice things in PVP. I think you are still missing a critical point. Yes, in the right hands and the right situation any ship can be dangerous. But the problem is that some ships have a limited set of scenarios in which that may be true. In the worst cases, the right scenario might not even exist. Some ships take little effort to make work in a particular role. The Rokh excells as a fleet sniper - all it needs is railguns, long ranged ammo and a sensor booster. Others (like the maelstrom) require several additional modifications to do the same job as the Rokh. Some ships are simply an uphill battle, and the worst of them present a hill so steep that it might as well be unclimbable. The minmitar lineup is hardly the worst ship for the job most of the time, but you can be certain that it's almost NEVER going to be the best.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:03:00 - [4] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 14/10/2008 02:00:49 Yadda yadda yadda, your EFT numbers vs my facts and real experience. Who wins?. And if you say a Tempest is getting crappier on sisi only because it get a little lower speed and a bigger mass just proves that your stupid and ******ed. Because the changes that are on sisi MAKES THE TEMPEST BETTER FFS. Numbers are. Because you have done nothing to establish your ethos with me. Numbers are verifiable - your story is only that to me. It's a fairtale. Nothing against you or anything; if you want to argue based on ethos you have to make me understand WHY you're a credible source, and the best way to do that? Give me proof and numbers. Otherwise it's just heresay.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:25:00 - [5] Originally by: NightmareX Please tell me exactly why you can't really compare Sisi combat with TQ combat?. It's the same reason a high school physics equation does not correctly model a real world scenario: the variables are different. In TQ, the fear of loss is the primary variable that leads to the fundamental differences between it and SiSi. Ships are rarely fit with top of the line gear - most opt for easily replaced T2 gear instead. Ships will often blob in TQ because the more friends you have the less likely you are to get personally waxed in a fight. Fear of an unproven design means you face mostly proven cookie-cutter style ships. There is more than that obviously, and while sisi provides an excellent forum for live fire testing of ships and concepts the only real test ground is on TQ. Until it's proven (or disproven) on TQ it's all just theory.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.15 22:57:00 - [6] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 15/10/2008 22:01:17 Originally by: Traderboz Ew Order? Say it ain't so. The one upside order has is that there are fewer of them, and so their queue times are blazing fast. Oh, and they have those damn bright wizards, but if and when those get nerfed, as they need to be, lol, then destruction for the win. And simply put, we look cooler. I dunno... the Destro classes are all pretty badass simply on the numbers - they didn't need the superior looks. I tried tank but it wasn't my bag... then I tried DPS. Muuuch better. Been running with 2x shadow warriors (me and another guy from Eve) and it's epically fun to primary people while "cloaked". The shadow warriors are almost outdamaging bright wizards. ;-) Was looking at it and between the two of us we've been taking down squishies in sub 6 seconds pretty regularly... -Liang Ed: And my favorite thing is the queue times being so darn fast. You should try it on Order... tons of fun, and if you've got a good team you can steamroll people over and over. ;-) I've pretty much tried every class in the game at this point and my favorites are (in order) Witch Hunter (shooting people in the face is great) Shadow Warrior (Skrimish + DPS is a hell of a lot better than stationary DPS) Chosen (The best tank in the game as far as I'm concerned)
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:06:00 - [7] Originally by: AstroPhobic I want to try WAR... there a free demo out? The cinematic trailer was . I CBA to pay ~500mil per GTC, and grinding ISK has always been the killer for me. No demo for now; you have to pay for the game. It's worth the price of admission I think. The PVP is solid, the balance issues are tolerable and PVE is not nearly as soul crushing. In fact, you never need PVE if you don't want to - you can level just fine in PVP (and often you level faster in PVP than PVE).
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.16 01:24:00 - [8] I created a new order alt to play with all the cool kids. Pandarus on the same server as liang and presumably banco shortly.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.16 01:54:00 - [9] Edited by: Derek Sigres on 16/10/2008 01:56:09 They have thier pros and cons. Witch hunter is a bit more difficult to be effective with. They do gobs of damage but you're expected to be at point blank range to do it in. Shadow Warrior on the other hand has incredible reach and is generally useful against anything that you can touch with an arrow. I prefer Witch Hunter myself but I figured I'd give shadow warrior another go anyway.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.16 14:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Traderboz Bastards are hanging me out to dry and rolling order? For shame. Oh well, maybe they'll do cross-server scenarios in the future and I can hunt you squishy archers and witch hunters down. Nothing says you can't have an Order alt. I have a desctuction alt on your server.

Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.16 17:31:00 - [11] Edited by: Derek Sigres on 16/10/2008 17:33:45 Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 16/10/2008 17:01:16 Originally by: Traderboz Bastards are hanging me out to dry and rolling order? For shame. Oh well, maybe they'll do cross-server scenarios in the future and I can hunt you squishy archers and witch hunters down. You're just jealous of my 20 second queue time... and I look forward to rocking your world. We were running with three shadow warriors last night and were instavolleying all the Destro squishies... :P On vent it sounded like: "Shamuaun, Magus back left" "On it", "Confirm" 3s later: "He's down, Zarbut, orc on the healers" "On it", "Got him" "Snared", "Acid" "Down." ... Destro was getting romped like 500 / 64 on Norden ;-) -Liang Ed: We didn't win every time though... when we lost it was usually something like 475 / 500. That said, Warhammer has a tremendous capacity for team playing... and you won't get the everloving hell blobbed out of you which is nice. Eve Fleet Warfare meets WAR RvR. God help the enemies of order. That being said, on the Core servers there isn't much of a problem with the "blob" per se. On the Open RvR server my main is on, any time you set foot into the RvR zone you can rest assured there is a group of Chaos guys 10 levels higher just waiting to come out and crush any hope of doing any good. Luckily, core servers prevent such atorcities by enforcing the level cap. I myself from time to time would run into the Chaos noob zone as a level 16 Witch Hunter and screw with the people innocently trying to run a public quest. It was so unfair the game wouldn't give me experience or reknown even after I killed a dozen level 3's. I think the only way to cap this story is with the trusty .
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.16 22:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Traderboz Yes, I do have queue-envy. T_T The battlegrounds go back and forth though. We win most t3 on my server, except alliance mostly queue for Tor since they all have lame knockbacks and it is filled with lava, haha. Still, with good teams, I've shut out alliance on Tor 500-0 where they didn't even kill one of us, hehe. If and when they nerf bright wizards damage a bit (the Amarr of the game) and buff Magus (the tempest), it'll definitely be a tough sell for me to roll Order. And let's face it. My Marauder definitely looks cooler. The knockback attacks are one of the most awesomely overpowered things in gaming. I mean, sure they don't really do any damage and most people don't bother getting to a good angle before using them but that doesn't limit their potential. Even on Nordenwatch, where there's nothing around that's going to hurt you, if you simply take a step to the side and THEN knock the offending marauder/witch elf/Chosen off the cliff into the sea it takes them out of the fight for several minutes while they desperately try to find the 3 foot wide section of beach you can actually walk up. On the subject of looks though, the Marauder is a fary cry from the Chosen in my book. When you see a reasonably high level chosen wandering about radiating evil you get the definite feeling that they're badass. All a marauder has is an arm that becomes a sword. And I think the Witch Hunter looks pretty sweet in an "evil puritan" sort of way.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.17 03:25:00 - [13] Originally by: AstroPhobic Sounds so cool... but 50 bucks PLUS subscription fees is kind of lame tbh. I need a job While it it somewhat lame in comparison to the great deals of Eve (or WoW I suppose), it's basically the standard for MMO releases these days. It should be noted that your fifty bucks does pay for the first month. I have no idea what it costs per month.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.21 04:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: LadyLubU2 The heavy tanking/crap dps/no tackle one, one of them out there has to be this. Crap dps? 1100+ dps. Guns dont use cap. Thats pretty good yes. Considering it's out DPS'd by the Torp Raven (1200 non over heated using faction torps) at up to 30km (or more if the raven pilot uses range rigs), or out dps'd at point blank range (where it's actually going to have a hope in hell of achieving that kind of damage) by a Neutron Mega. It's "pretty good" until you look at the stiff competition (which, incidentally, is cheaper by a noticable amount). And being cap free is only of use if the ship is active tanking (because you are using all those highs for guns presumably and therefore aren't going to be sacrificing your own cap to nuke the other guy's), but it seems that active tanking by and large has been deemed "stupid" by "those people who know what they're doing", and therefore the utility of that "bonus" is somewhat "questionable" (Just imagine someone doing finger quotes when reading that last sentence).
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.21 05:17:00 - [15] Originally by: EFT Warrior Typhoon can be handy for being the all DPS battleships that you need in those pesky 10/10 plexes and level 5s. It just does it up close. Damn this has me confused, why minmatar BS's? Doesn't that go against the entire minmatar philosophy? Well, they are built from essentially garbage. And, well - garbage in, garbage out.

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